tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post113157964184919424..comments2024-03-18T22:21:33.261-07:00Comments on The Debate Link: Training The Idiot GenerationDavid Schraubhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04946653376744012423noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post-77232147707811281972007-05-11T09:17:00.000-07:002007-05-11T09:17:00.000-07:00It appears to me that you love to talk more than y...It appears to me that you love to talk more than you love to communicate.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post-1131599607012892322005-11-09T21:13:00.000-08:002005-11-09T21:13:00.000-08:00The formal teaching of rhetoric usuallyy begins wi...The formal teaching of rhetoric usuallyy begins with Aristotle who is also noted for founding traditional logic. Though I don't believe Aristotle formally spoke of logical fallacies they do remain a valuable tool (eg. you can't prove a negative) and are closely associated with the basic texts on the subject.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post-1131598329882699252005-11-09T20:52:00.000-08:002005-11-09T20:52:00.000-08:00Don't be childish. We should no more abandon rhet...Don't be childish. We should no more abandon rhetoric than grammar. Rhetoric is a skill independent of reason. As a a skill, it can be taught and judged. And so it is. Your error is in imagining that college debate is anything more than it is.<BR/><BR/>Move on from the trivial to the quadrivial and then onto serious study of philosopy and theology.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post-1131581331476007432005-11-09T16:08:00.000-08:002005-11-09T16:08:00.000-08:00You write At least since Hobbes, and probably befo...You write <BR/><BR/><EM>At least since Hobbes, and probably before, we've known that humankind, at its most basic state, is not a friendly creature. Our base emotions tend not to be those supporting equal personhood, empathy, unity, or trust. They tend to be selfishness, mistrust, anger, violence, prejudice, and most of all, fear.</EM> <BR/><BR/>Recently I've been thinking that the Hobbesean formuation is flawed. Man at his most basic is, while flawed, is (after Alasadir MacIntyre) a dependent rational animal for who almost universally finds as his primary motivation to be fulfilling his obligations to those who are dependent on him and to repay those on whom he depends. <BR/><BR/>You might also look at Bertrand Jouvenel's <EM>Sovreignty</EM> who offers a coherent cohesive (at least as far as I can tell) alternative to the Locke/Hobbes view of the political.<BR/><BR/>As far as your arguments that style so often beats substance, I had to smile. Far too long ago, in High School, I recall arguing (to the dismay of my instructor) that the Rev. King Jr. and Hitler were both different sides of a similar evil in that both used rhetoric to persuade. That those who followed and listened cared little for the substance of their message but were persuaded more by the music in their prose. While I'm not sure I'd continue to support that view, I certainly have sympathy for your point.Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10837999838469082203noreply@blogger.com