tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post113703296416465395..comments2024-03-18T22:21:33.261-07:00Comments on The Debate Link: Rape From The Perspective Of Its VictimsDavid Schraubhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04946653376744012423noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post-90678797343469336752008-12-01T18:51:00.000-08:002008-12-01T18:51:00.000-08:00I don't see the point after he got your keys you s...I don't see the point after he got your keys you should have either ran or do somthing to draw attentionto your situationAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post-1137186431256662262006-01-13T13:07:00.000-08:002006-01-13T13:07:00.000-08:00As usual, there are contrary views within feminism...As usual, there are contrary views within feminism. Many feminists have been saying for years that many rapes are not identified as such by the victims; see, for instance, Mary Koss's studies, or the book <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060925728/qid=1137186268/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/002-4411386-5246415?s=books&v=glance&n=283155" REL="nofollow">I Never Called It Rape</A>.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post-1137101666149964472006-01-12T13:34:00.000-08:002006-01-12T13:34:00.000-08:00Wow, that's a great post and comments. The "men fe...Wow, that's a great post and comments.<BR/><BR/> The "men feel social pressure theory.." may have be only a limited factor . The author says "...one misstep can blow apart their liberal credentials". Only in liberal arts departments in universities is "liberal credentials" so important. I suspect you will find just the same unanimity among men in some all-male departments. You will also find the same response among a lot of guys who are too shy to have girlfriends or any female friends at all (i.e. they have little to lose if women consider them "creepy guys").<BR/><BR/>I agree with the Sophonisba's theory. I think a lot of women still (because of conditioning) subconsciously associate being raped with a lack of virtue i.e. it can be prevented if you are careful and act "respectably" (applies in some societies), along with feeling that it can be prevented by a firm "No", by other physical measures<BR/><BR/>Men, on the other hand, are familiar with feelings of lust for women at all levels of sexual invitation (i.e. one can feel very attracted to a woman who is very conservatively dressed or a woman who clearly expresses lack of interest in him). (Of course, power, is the greater dynamic than lust in most rape instances). Their experience of greater physical strength could also lead them to believe (falsely, because many women can in fact defend themselves very well), that most women can be rape victims.<BR/><BR/>Women, on the other hand, always deal with data about which behaviors are **likely** to prevent rape, which are least effective etc. So they focus on what the woman could have done<BR/><BR/>Finally, I know, I will be quartered for saying this, but man are less forgiving when ask to judge other people's matter. They are more likely to say "here's what the law says, you violated this clause, you are guilty. They are much less likely than women to listen to "i don't know what I was thinking, it seemed like she was interested, she didn't indicate clearly enough". Men can believe all that and still say "you're guilty" based on the clear technical violation of the law no matter what the circumstance. I suspect this might extend beyond rape cases. Just the way most men tend to think, IMO.<BR/><BR/>I also agree with the poster's view that men have been largely cut out of the rape issue. It's been made into a women's issue. Well, atleast it's not a family honor issue....<BR/>Perhaps, taking the stand that "men condemn rape because it's fashionable to do so", "they can feel like the protecters by being tough on rape" is condescending and not too acknowledging of the serious role that men can play against rape.Kurmahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10386904926747048894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post-1137096134736766012006-01-12T12:02:00.000-08:002006-01-12T12:02:00.000-08:00It's my understanding that standpoint theory has b...It's my understanding that standpoint theory has been critiqued rather heavily--but mostly by third wave feminists who nail on anti-essentialism grounds. There hasn't been a theoretical push to include male voices in feminist discourse, which means the harms I'm talking about still are present.<BR/><BR/>What you said Sophonisba is very interesting--I didn't know the "trusim" (not knowing, I would have guessed it was the other way around) and the points you make are very incisive and ones I hadn't thought of.David Schraubhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04946653376744012423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post-1137079901792891472006-01-12T07:31:00.000-08:002006-01-12T07:31:00.000-08:00Wow-- what a blast from the past. I remember read...Wow-- what a blast from the past. I remember reading that case in law school -- and being one of the women who thought it wasn't rape. I am going to have to try to get back inside my ten-years-younger head and try to remember why I viewed the case in that way. Part of it may have been that, for all my feminism, I didn't want to be what I THEN thought of as one of those "knee-jerk / all sex is rape" feminists. I think part of it is what sophonisba said. <BR/><BR/>Lots to chew on here, and I'm looking forward to rereading this post again.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post-1137066081581388112006-01-12T03:41:00.000-08:002006-01-12T03:41:00.000-08:00However, the growing focus on standpoint theory an...<I>However, the growing focus on standpoint theory and feminism solely from the perspective of women ("the victims") has alternatively discouraged, disoriented, and/or disempowered these men from feminist political movements. </I><BR/><BR/>You need to check your timeline - standpoint theory has been critiqued again and again by major feminist theorists! It's hardly valid in feminist academic circles - and those who do use it are simply lazy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post-1137037278133949842006-01-11T19:41:00.000-08:002006-01-11T19:41:00.000-08:00At some level, there has been a divergence from th...<I>At some level, there has been a divergence from the classic thought on the matter. Women are denying that rape happened even as the men around them are adamant that it occurred.</I><BR/><BR/><BR/>I'm surprised you find any of this surprising. This <I>is</I> the classic pattern. I thought it was a truism among lawyers that women jurors are less likely to convict a rapist than men, because men don't have to worry in the same way about what it means that any woman can be raped, whatever she does "right". They just get to feel protective and outraged. "If it happened to her, it can happen to me" is not a fun thing to think, so women don't like to think it. Surprise.<BR/><BR/>This is why feminists go on and on about rape prevention not being women's job: because as long as we believe it's our job to avoid being raped, we'll critique the efforts of women who failed in this duty. It's a feminist cliche: to stand up squarely against rape, it helps to not be afraid it might happen to you. Everyone wants the illusion of control; a woman who acknowledges the blamelessness of rape victims is giving it up.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com