tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post7153601024906668738..comments2024-03-18T22:21:33.261-07:00Comments on The Debate Link: The Known Knowns, and The Known UnknownsDavid Schraubhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04946653376744012423noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post-82046880570650762472009-01-29T06:46:00.000-08:002009-01-29T06:46:00.000-08:00Followed link over from Richard's blog. Good post...Followed link over from Richard's blog. Good post. And I have to say--this kind of rhetoric from South African state officials makes me incredibly sad.Kristinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13802639814234250619noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post-55348500077945496392009-01-29T01:50:00.000-08:002009-01-29T01:50:00.000-08:00Previous comment was by David Saks, by the way.Previous comment was by David Saks, by the way.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post-66950671792576673242009-01-29T01:49:00.000-08:002009-01-29T01:49:00.000-08:00Sensible, persuasive, unemotive piece of analysis....Sensible, persuasive, unemotive piece of analysis. Well done. Given me something to think about, and reminded me about the gap that exists between polemics and objective commentary.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post-75384156769122364712009-01-28T17:32:00.000-08:002009-01-28T17:32:00.000-08:00I didn't raise this at Its All Connected because I...I didn't raise this at Its All Connected because I didn't want to make Galling Galla feel that her concerns weren't being taken seriously. But there were two things she said that I did question:<BR/><BR/>"Because I am queer and trans, israel is NOT an option for me. I do not see israel as a safe haven for me, because I am quite aware how hostile the israeli society and government is to queer and trans people, to the point that I would fear for my life if I found myself in israel."<BR/><BR/>Galla appears to be American, so she presumably is speaking to some extent in relation to her experience of the U.S. in that same identity as a queer and trans person. I am really surprised by the claim that Israel is more hostile to queer and trans people than the U.S. is. <BR/><BR/>From what I understand, Israel <BR/>allows gays to serve openly in the military, <BR/>recognizes out-of-country same-sex marriages and recognizes civil union type legal arrangements for same-sex couples, <BR/>allows same-sex couples to adopt each other's children, <BR/>includes sexual orientation in anti-discrimination law,<BR/>*legislatively* decriminalized homosexual sex (as opposed to having it done through the courts, and this 15 years before Lawrence),<BR/>and has become something of a refuge for Palestinians who are persecuted for their own LGBT identity.<BR/><BR/>I know that the ultra-religious conservatives in Israel can be hostile and even violent toward LGBT folks, but that's true in the U.S. or really anywhere in the world. Ditto harassment of gays in the military (which seems to be statistically comparable to the rate of harassment of women, and there's probably huge overlap in who harasses both gays and women).<BR/><BR/>Is there a level of violence toward queer and trans people in Israel that is greater than that in the U.S., and that outweighs these legal protections that reach far beyond what gays obtain under U.S. federal law? Galla speaks of fearing for her life; has there been a higher murder rate of LGBT people in Israel than in the U.S.?<BR/><BR/>Along the same lines:<BR/>"I was, and am, very frightened by this, and I wonder if David, or someone who agrees with him, will take the next step and commit acts of violence against anti-Zionist Jews. When I read those words, I was more afraid to be Jewish than I have been in more than a decade. I feel that this is a physical threat to my safety, merely for critiquing the policies of a government..."<BR/><BR/>Have there been any recorded incidents of violence or legally-condoned discrimination against anti-Zionist Jews, particularly *outside* Israel?PGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09381347581328622706noreply@blogger.com