tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post7406410583792222445..comments2024-03-18T22:21:33.261-07:00Comments on The Debate Link: Today in MosquedomDavid Schraubhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04946653376744012423noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post-63411099997512426192010-08-05T20:30:12.528-07:002010-08-05T20:30:12.528-07:00I'm pretty busy this week, and while I like a ...I'm pretty busy this week, and while I like a good debate, endless argument with you can be pretty depressing. Nothing personal, it's not you, it's the apparently irreconcilable difference of viewpoint.joenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post-80387390714063431122010-08-05T17:53:15.485-07:002010-08-05T17:53:15.485-07:00Joe,
You might consider answering my posts, direc...Joe,<br /><br />You might consider answering my posts, directed to you, on the other <a href="https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=7321349&postID=7253647468254768453" rel="nofollow">board</a>. I spent some considerable time creating an argument for your consideration.N. Friedmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post-74502724471592483282010-08-05T14:21:56.934-07:002010-08-05T14:21:56.934-07:00I mention Bloomberg, N., because features prominen...I mention Bloomberg, N., because features prominently in this blog post. And because, as I said, it's an otherwise excellent speech about religious freedom that is marred by these flaws. But you are correct, that he's certainly not the first.joenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post-79945900199551191072010-08-05T14:07:14.893-07:002010-08-05T14:07:14.893-07:00I just uncovered some information regarding the im...I just uncovered some information regarding the imam for the Cordoba House which gives me real pause about think the project my support. While I still would not want to ban the project - religious freedom and the like being dear to me -, this connection, below described, is enough to make me want never to go near it and to think that the project is not likely well intentioned. What follows was written by Stephen Schwartz, who is a convert to Islam. He <a href="http://www.americanthinker.com/printpage/?url=http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/08/john_esposito_islamophobia_and.html" rel="nofollow">writes</a>:<br /><br /><i>It has become widely known that Rauf is a leading figure in the so-called <a href="http://www.perdana4peace.org/agenda.aspx?x=3" rel="nofollow">Perdana Global Peace Organisation</a>, which is headed by one of the Islamic world's most offensive Jew-haters, former Malaysian prime minister Mahathir bin Mohamad. Perdana was instrumental in organizing the Turkey-based attempt to run the Israeli naval embargo of Hamas-run Gaza at the end of May. The group's roster of "Role Players & Contributors" begins with Mahathir, listing Rauf as second below him. Incredibly, the same list includes <a href="http://www.perdana4peace.org/agenda.aspx?x=7" rel="nofollow">Michel Chossudovsky</a>, a Canadian leftist professor known for his ardent defense of Slobodan Milosevic, the late Serbian demagogue. What could be more Islamophobic than to join in a public enterprise with such an individual? </i><br /><br />I note that his article includes other interesting information, most particularly on a topic about which he has written at length, namely, the funding by foreigners of the Salafist/Islamist point of view of mosques in the US. Again, if the project is genuine - which I now doubt -, it will be helpful to the Muslim community, which (while causing pain to many others), is reason enough to think the project a good idea. However, with the noted information, I shall have nothing to do with the project.N. Friedmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post-46312702383559764012010-08-05T11:20:14.375-07:002010-08-05T11:20:14.375-07:00Joe,
You write: "But the problem with this i...Joe,<br /><br />You write: "But the problem with this is a we have a public official making a pronouncement of what is and isn't true Islam. Although it takes the form of a compliment, do we really want political leaders going there? (The fact that it's a non-Muslim saying what Islam is and isn't can also raise eyebrows, but I'm more concerned with secular values.)"<br /><br />We have, since 9/11, had one politician after another saying what Islam teaches. So, why pick on Bloomberg? He is saying nothing new or original. <br /><br />While, I agree with you, that it is for Muslims to interpret their own religion, if what the Mayor is saying is untrue, then we have a really big problem indeed. So, I see no harm in it.N. Friedmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post-69447971101875854232010-08-05T10:23:37.586-07:002010-08-05T10:23:37.586-07:00Having just read the entire Bloomberg speech I tak...Having just read the entire Bloomberg speech I take issue with a couple of things.<br /><br /><i>By doing so, it is my hope that the mosque will help to bring our city even closer together and help repudiate the false and repugnant idea that the attacks of 9/11 were in any way consistent with Islam. </i><br /><br />I like to think the "refudiate" was a shot across the bow at Sarah Palin. But the problem with this is a we have a public official making a pronouncement of what is and isn't true Islam. Although it takes the form of a compliment, do we really want political leaders going there? (The fact that it's a non-Muslim saying what Islam is and isn't can also raise eyebrows, but I'm more concerned with secular values.)<br /><br /><i>Political controversies come and go, but our values and our traditions endure -- and there is no neighborhood in this city that is off limits to God's love and mercy.</i><br /><br />These mentions of God, to say nothing of prayers at inaugurations and in legislatures, have a tendency of leaving out non-believers (and, to some extent, non-monotheists). How would the religious folks like it if an atheist mayor said something like "God would love the hell out of our fair city, if he actually existed"? I'm betting not a lot.<br /><br />These are comparatively small issues next to the campaign of ostracism aimed at Cordoba House, and Bloomberg deserves a lot of credit for standing up to the bullies, but still, definitely flourishes that mar an otherwise great speech.joenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post-40322799324510165662010-08-04T21:35:00.028-07:002010-08-04T21:35:00.028-07:00Well said. No society that purports to give a damn...Well said. No society that purports to give a damn about individual rights can demand these "soft" loyalty oaths up front from Muslims, or anyone else.joenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post-28646536079195141282010-08-04T07:50:33.802-07:002010-08-04T07:50:33.802-07:00David,
I think you totally misread what Harris wr...David,<br /><br />I think you totally misread what Harris wrote. What he was saying is that the community center will have no credibility as a healing agent if it either has ties to Islamists or does not reject terrorism. That point is rather difficult to disagree with, in my humble view. And, it is an important point to make, given the fact that the US is in a war with Islamists who claim to represent Islam and its agenda, all in the name of God.<br /><br />I also think you totally misread what Foxman is saying. While I have stated my disagreement with him - and you can see it in my 8:49 AM <a href="https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=7321349&postID=7253647468254768453" rel="nofollow">post</a>, the analogy he makes to the nunnery at Auschwitz is a very good one; even so, I think he draws the wrong conclusion.N. Friedmannoreply@blogger.com