tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post116270507883869594..comments2024-03-18T22:21:33.261-07:00Comments on The Debate Link: Baby KillersDavid Schraubhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04946653376744012423noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post-1162827166205243502006-11-06T07:32:00.000-08:002006-11-06T07:32:00.000-08:00Yeah, David. You're naive AND a stupid-head. Nee...Yeah, David. You're naive AND a stupid-head. Neener neener.<BR/><BR/>On the other hand, of course, there's the possibility that our immigration laws are and agencies are not dealing with the problem correctly. But we shouldn't consider that. All that matters is that people who gave up everything and risked their lives to sneak into this country obviously don't love it enough to be here, and if you don't recognize that, you're a terrorist.<BR/><BR/>I should leave it there, but as far as analogies go--if the supreme law of David's house was that anyone born within the house is a member of his family, he would be criminally negligent--at least--in kicking that child out into the street. Other than that fatal flaw, your analogy is fine.Ivan Ludmerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06826060655874038157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post-1162823181319259782006-11-06T06:26:00.000-08:002006-11-06T06:26:00.000-08:00Furthermore DAVID, to not want people to come here...Furthermore DAVID, to not want people to come here illegally has NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. I DON'T CARE WHAT COLOR THEY ARE IF THEY DON'T COME IN THE FRONT DOOR THEY SHOULD GET OUT. THE ILLEGALS ARE PUTTING THEIR BABIES AT RISK BY HAVING THEM HERE AND EXPECTING THE GOVERNMENT TO TAKE CARE OF THEM. <BR/><BR/>I am not advocating punishing any babies for the transgressions of their parents. Critical care for any infant or any person is humane but THEN THEY NEED TO BE DEPORTED not SUPPORTED.<BR/><BR/>David you are a very naive and brain washed college student and you have a lot to learn.Ruthinesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08225812824611333598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post-1162823006667081122006-11-06T06:23:00.000-08:002006-11-06T06:23:00.000-08:00DAVID - the illegals are not BUYING into anything....DAVID - the illegals are not BUYING into anything. They are STEALING. What have you to say to all the LEGAL immigrants who went through the process, paid the fees etc, waited IN LINE to emigrate to the US and then they see these people just walking across the border and they get to stay for a LOT less trouble. That sends the WRONG message. A country CANNOT just let everybody who wants to come into the country AND then let them sap off the taxpayer's money. That is just stupid headed to think a country can survive without controlling it's immigration rate. Look at ANY other country, MEXICO especially and see how they handle immigration and you will see the US are the only IDIOTS who let people come here, have a baby and poof become citizens. And worse yet, let anybody who can get across the border STAY HERE! Attitudes like yours are going to ruin this country and I for one am not going to stand by idly and let it happen.<BR/><BR/>My analogy about a woman giving birth in your living room is very appropriate because if you don't feel this is YOUR country that is YOUR home then you should leave because you don't deserve to be a citizen.Ruthinesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08225812824611333598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post-1162789420282312232006-11-05T21:03:00.000-08:002006-11-05T21:03:00.000-08:00Jack: You're telling me!I'm not even going to resp...Jack: You're telling me!<BR/><BR/>I'm not even going to respond to that blatantly racist comment except to cite the 14th Amendment: "<I>All persons born or naturalized in the United States,</I> and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."<BR/><BR/>The children of illegal immigrants remain persons, and are indeed subject to the jurisdiction of the United States. Hence, they are legal, full citizens of this great nation, and we are absolutely and totally obligated to treat them as such. To do otherwise subverts the 14th amendment and is racism, pure and simple.David Schraubhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04946653376744012423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post-1162788929713750842006-11-05T20:55:00.001-08:002006-11-05T20:55:00.001-08:001) I'm really confused as to how or why we apply a...1) I'm really confused as to how or why we apply a choice metric to new-born infants. They didn't choose to be born in ("come to") America. The argument for healthcare for new-born infants isn't based off concern for the adult but for the newborn--all your arguments about discouraging "parasites" fail because the actual subject of the dispute a) doesn't have culpability and b) is a US citizen by law.<BR/><BR/>2) The typical "it's the law" argument--while not usually persuasive to me in general--is particularly poorly applied here because again the subject of the policy is a US citizen under the 14th amendment. I do expect the US government to provide basic levels of care for indigent US citizens.<BR/><BR/>3) RE: Your "women giving birth in my living room" example. First, I think it rests on a false equivilancy of illegal immigration and breaking and entering. I don't conceptualize America as private property but as public domain. Second, I have no healthcare obligations--implied or otherwise--to anyone who is spatially present in my house (I might have it for other reasons--e.g., family under my roof--but that's because they're family, not because they're in my house). By contrast, governmental obligations are in many ways spatial, they cover all persons (and in many cases it is "persons", not just citizens--though again that's irrelevant here because the babies are citizens) who are living in the locale. Third, I think I do have an obligation to do my best to provide said woman's baby with care--but that doesn't necessarily translate to "on my health insurance". Far more rational would be making sure the mother can get to a hospital and be registered for medicaid (if eligible). Similarly, I'm agnostic toward <I>how</I> the US government insures the baby has healthcare, as long as the US government insures the baby has healthcare. However, unbroken medicaid coverage is as a policy matter probably the best way to achieve this. Certainly, deporting the mother back to her home country (which likely does not have a public healthcare system) doesn't achieve this burden.<BR/><BR/>4) The emphasis on deportation seems to display a rather shocking disregard for the wellbeing <I>of the child</I> who (to reiterate <I>again</I>) is a US citizen. Where do we get off randomly deporting 2 week old US citizens to punish women who have the temerity of buying into the American dream?<BR/><BR/>5) A massive portion of American citizens descend from illegal immigrants anyway--indeed, illegal immigration was the basis of our nation. Some people make that argument to condemn the older White immigrants. I make it to show that trying to use "law" to restrict people who dream of a better life is a fools game, and history will never condemn a parent whose only offense is desiring a real future for her child.David Schraubhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04946653376744012423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post-1162785839288879612006-11-05T20:03:00.000-08:002006-11-05T20:03:00.000-08:00Ok David. Let's say a pregnant woman breaks into y...Ok David. Let's say a pregnant woman breaks into your house and she has her baby right there in your living room. You gonna put her on your health insurance policy and let her stay there? If not, you are the SAME baby killer you are saying the Rebpublicans and Anti-Illegals are. If you kick that woman out of your house, even though she broke in - you are as heartless as we are. See the picture now??Ruthinesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08225812824611333598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post-1162784655904486532006-11-05T19:44:00.000-08:002006-11-05T19:44:00.000-08:00And furthermore, they should NOT get to be citizen...And furthermore, they should NOT get to be citizens at ALL if they came here ILLEGALLY. The safest thing to do is to GO HOME and not expect the US taxpayers to keep paying for their offspring!Ruthinesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08225812824611333598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post-1162784535481057842006-11-05T19:42:00.000-08:002006-11-05T19:42:00.000-08:00Not a vendetta. Their parents are illegals who snu...Not a vendetta. Their parents are illegals who snuck into our country, sponge off our taxpayer funded public assistance, jam up our emergency rooms, don't pay any taxes and they send the extra money back to Mexico to their families. They need to be discouraged from coming here as parasites.<BR/><BR/>They won't let their babies suffer - they will just go home where they belong. They will be a lot less likely to use the anchor baby trick to become citizens this way. I'm ALL for it!Ruthinesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08225812824611333598noreply@blogger.com