tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post3837615946411952516..comments2024-03-18T22:21:33.261-07:00Comments on The Debate Link: Ed Cite RoundupDavid Schraubhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04946653376744012423noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post-30214797837474774082010-02-26T07:40:36.134-08:002010-02-26T07:40:36.134-08:00David,
You write: "... it will, as usual, be...David,<br /><br />You write: "... it will, as usual, be pure politics."<br /><br />And, that is how all of this stuff should be treated, as pure politics.N. Friedmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post-57065498914723664152010-02-25T18:24:44.613-08:002010-02-25T18:24:44.613-08:00Good catch.
I haven't seen anyone contest tha...Good catch.<br /><br />I haven't seen anyone contest that Israel has followed up on every allegation. The debate does seem to focus on "independent", and I find that debate difficult to parse. <br /><br />Israel claims that the procedures it uses are substantively analogous to those used by other prominent countries, including their "internal character". I haven't seen anyone contest the substantive processes by which the IDF conducts these investigations (I could be missing them, of course), the claim is just that they're not "independent". But that objection doesn't go away because the Israeli government forms a panel -- we'd just say "Israel is the target and investigator."<br /><br />Ultimately, there are two elements we come into play when thinking about "independence". The first is the particular mechanisms of the process, which are <a href="http://www.haaretz.com/hasite/images/iht_daily/D290110/Gaza%20Operation%20Investigations%20An%20Update.pdf" rel="nofollow">outlined here</a>. The IDF investigation is "independent" insofar as the investigators are outside the Cast Lead chain of command, immune from oversight from the general military command, and subject to independent judicial review (see Part II-III; III(E) for analogies to other legal systems).<br /><br />The second part is that all the facial legal rules in the world are useless if their isn't a norm of independence, and that's always a subjective inquiry. Historically, the IDF's legal arm's reputation has been good, but obviously this is the sort of thing where it is easy for things to get blurry real quick.<br /><br />Unfortunately, given the deep indeterminancy of the issue (particularly along the second axis), I have little faith in the ability of the international community to engage in any sort of good faith legal interpretation -- it will, as usual, be pure politics.David Schraubhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04946653376744012423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post-88344124331609631832010-02-25T17:33:31.501-08:002010-02-25T17:33:31.501-08:00"even though Secretary General Ban Ki-Moon al..."even though Secretary General Ban Ki-Moon already noted that Israel has followed up on every allegation through processes which are identical to those by other Western countries."<br /><br />It's not clear he did say that. Some folks are saying that Israel said that, the UN quoted it, and the press <a href="http://alethonews.wordpress.com/2010/02/06/ap-misquoted-un-sec%E2%80%99y-gen%E2%80%99l-as-praising-israel/" rel="nofollow">mistakenly attributed it to Ban</a>.<br /><br />According to a later Haaretz article, "Many UN members say the Israeli report was not independent as it was written by the armed forces, which are the target of Goldstone's accusations." Presumably that is why they're asking Israel to do an independent investigation.Barry Deutschhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08796981762797604817noreply@blogger.com