tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post4076766311267932022..comments2024-03-18T22:21:33.261-07:00Comments on The Debate Link: Berkeley's Partially Pregnant ProtestsDavid Schraubhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04946653376744012423noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post-16672938574047175052023-07-23T04:55:59.793-07:002023-07-23T04:55:59.793-07:00Revisiting this six years later, because the incid...Revisiting this six years later, because the incident came up in conversation, and I can more directly articulate the point that: even moreso today, it strikes me as fundamentally crucial context that BAMN rioted to force cancellation specifically because of the threat that he was planning to dox undocumented students. https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/UC-warns-campus-group-Yiannopoulos-event-could-10901517.php<br />Obviously this doesn't account for the continued and moving destruction after the event was cancelled. But "wanted to become ungovernable" is frankly not a sufficiently nuanced take on what happened there.bookworm914https://www.blogger.com/profile/14401809945292061820noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post-51190586859828625902017-02-05T10:25:21.539-08:002017-02-05T10:25:21.539-08:001a: I have no information on this either way.
1b: ...1a: I have no information on this either way.<br />1b: "Incitement" only covers conduct that would *imminently* cause unlawful action, which doesn't seem to apply here. Individual harassers should be dealt with individually. And I'm not sure what an "injunction" against the harassment on a group level would look like (who is the relevant class enjoined?).<br />1c: Hard to say. Descriptively I have little information.<br /><br />2: See above on what is and isn't "incitement". As to the straw poll, depends if the respondents are First Amendment lawyers or not. 1A lawyers would say that if he's doing something unlawful (and incitement is tough to make stick, but in some cases invasion of privacy might work) sue him into the ground -- but after the speech itself (that's the prior restraint hook).David Schraubhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04946653376744012423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post-18195735348257684472017-02-05T01:57:20.763-08:002017-02-05T01:57:20.763-08:00As always, I appreciate your thoughtful and nuance...As always, I appreciate your thoughtful and nuanced analysis of situations, David. I wonder if you can go deeper with me in a couple of directions?<br />1. My contacts (mostly via social networking) with people in the non-violent protest camp indicate that their extensive efforts to get MY canceled in advance through civil discourse were increasingly met with non-civil discourse including written threats and some physical intimidation/harassment, much of which was directly traceable to BCRs. <br />a) To what extent do you have info on this, and to what extent does your info jibe with this characterization?<br />b) From both a legal/doctrinal and an ethical/principled perspective, at what point do individual uncivil harassments amount to a coordinated campaign which should be enjoined wholly, and would one not then also enjoin the incitement that prompted it?<br />c) Overall, my sense from these acquaintances is that though they were committed to non-violence at least in this case, they are happier with the outcome as it occurred - chaotic violence, than with the doxxing and targeted violence that were a likely result of MY actually speaking. Thoughts on that contrast?<br /><br />2. MY's campus tour has literally incited violence and left chaos in its wake in multiple cities - that's violence and chaos committed by the people who asked him to speak and came to listen to him. I am familiar in broad-strokes with the idea of 'prior restraint' in the free speech context, but when he is promoting a tour, and promising that each appearance will be similar to previous ones, I <b>want</b> to argue that it's a continuous speech act in progress that has already deliberately incited targeted violence, and deserves to be treated differently. If you straw-polled, how many takers would I get for that?<br /><br />Best,<br />Benbookworm914https://www.blogger.com/profile/14401809945292061820noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post-61515948068755021552017-02-03T01:21:27.624-08:002017-02-03T01:21:27.624-08:00Good take. Thanks.Good take. Thanks.Batocchiohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02193752396025012825noreply@blogger.com