tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post4629452000236190666..comments2024-03-18T22:21:33.261-07:00Comments on The Debate Link: Where Do You Stand?David Schraubhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04946653376744012423noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post-29485483669389179592007-06-26T14:49:00.000-07:002007-06-26T14:49:00.000-07:00Matt: I don't deny that many, if not most, of the ...Matt: I don't deny that many, if not most, of the Palestinians who were forced to leave their homes during the War of Independence suffered some form of injustice. And indeed, I am open to the prospect of monetary compensation (though I note that this has never been seen to be on the table when the subject is Jews who were forced to flee Arab countries at the same time) to remedy that.<BR/><BR/>The problem is "solved" when both Israelis and Palestinians have a state to call their own and which are peacefully co-existing side-by-side. If the Palestinians lay down their arms, but don't get a state, that is a grave injustice. And if they get a state, but continue to wage war against the Jewish citizens of Israel, that too would be a grave injustice.<BR/><BR/>Brian: I think the "two government" solution strikes me as practically unworkable. For one, the most aggressive advocates of a one-state solution (groups like Hamas) would never accept it (they're on the record as demanding an Islamic government that any remaining Jews would have to live under). For two, it is unclear that a majority of residents will support it--why would a Palestinian majority in a one-state scenario even agree to such concessions for its Jewish minority? Third, it doesn't solve for the problem of perpetual marginalization--even if Jews are granted allowances and exemptions by the state, they'll still be the Other. And fourth, and most important, because the Palestinian side would undoubtedly demand (and receive) an equal say in foreign policy and immigration decisions, Israel would likely lose one of its most important functions for the global Jewish community: a place that we know will take us in when we have nowhere else to go.David Schraubhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04946653376744012423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post-20004594227668949702007-06-26T13:52:00.000-07:002007-06-26T13:52:00.000-07:00This is generally a good article, but I think the ...This is generally a good article, but I think the analysis on the "right of return" is lacking. I do respect that the author points out the array of problematic, potentially genocidal, motives that can animate calls for a right of return. However, it is crass and simplistic to dismiss the idea of a right of return as nothing more than a code-phrase for the annihilation of Jewish identities in the Middle East. That, not too long ago, men and women were pried from their homes by force and are still deprived of an official recognition that the act of expulsion were wrong (or in some extremes, happened) recalls the worst of the political injustices American Indians have faced here. Just as Palestinian activists and their allies can and should be legitimately asked how they stand on Israel's future, I think all who casually or emphatically ally themselves with Israel need to answer on Palestine's past.<BR/><BR/>I know many in the pro-Israel camp whose understanding of the conflict is such that they would greatly like to see the incidence of Palestinian violence against Israelis decline and ultimately come to an end - (a hope that I share and believe that most conscientious activist on both sides of the issue do)- and that once such a peace was established the whole trouble of the region would be "over". Such a position fundamentally denies that Israel has or is doing anything unjust in refusing Palestinians a claim to their homes and histories. To these advocates, violence in the region is the problem. Older injustices are not worthy of mention.<BR/><BR/>And so my question, that I would like to see all in the pro-Israel camp answer, is this: Do you believe that the people of Palestine are suffering injustice from Israel? Or would you to happily count the conflict as resolved if Palestinian extremists were to lay down their weapons? <BR/><BR/>I think a negative answer to the first is disturbing in its utter refusal to acknowledge the perspective of the oppressed in Palestine. I think an affirmative answer to the second is disturbing because it validated what the worst elements of Palestinian movements have said for some time: that recognition of a Palestinian perspective will only be purchased in Israeli blood. I do not know how such a standpoint could possibly earn peace for Israel or Palestine.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post-51340495270251110222007-06-25T23:10:00.000-07:002007-06-25T23:10:00.000-07:00"...it would be best if one day, all states were t..."...it would be best if one day, all states were to melt away. That is a matter of theology."<BR/><BR/>For me that illustrates in two sentences the whole problem of the Middle East. But then I come from a small, secular democracy so what do I know?<BR/><BR/>"They show insufficient respect for the bodies of both Jews and Palestinians. And as such, they are playing dice with the lives of people who have bled for too long."<BR/><BR/>Ne'er truer word were spoken. And for as long as religion and race are the basis for division it is a conflict that will not be resolved.The probligohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17882103150181414348noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post-26649645624207822862007-06-25T15:33:00.000-07:002007-06-25T15:33:00.000-07:00any supporter of Palestinian self-determination sh...<I>any supporter of Palestinian self-determination should be asked to make it clear whether they support a viable self governing Israeli state, and oppose its destruction.</I><BR/><BR/>It's a good, and fair, question. Sadly, I have tried asking it before, and only gotten equivications in response...Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01314897574215489135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post-51846461670387232522007-06-25T14:54:00.000-07:002007-06-25T14:54:00.000-07:00I haven't read about the debate on this enough, bu...I haven't read about the debate on this enough, but I don't see why a one-state solution has to involve imposing minority force on a majority. For example, a state can conceivably have two different parliaments, a parliament for Jews and one for Palestinians, that only have the right of veto over affairs that effect both of them, or have to congress over certain issues. Two-government states have existed in history, including in ancient Greece. I am not a believer in the abolishment of a nation-state, i think that ideology is wrong-headed, but i think there can be many compromises, especially when national boundaries are in conflict.Brian Shapirohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09260038965020343601noreply@blogger.com