tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post6999260615569646410..comments2024-03-18T22:21:33.261-07:00Comments on The Debate Link: The Trouble with Anti-SemitismDavid Schraubhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04946653376744012423noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post-10800646119806772722007-10-18T16:20:00.000-07:002007-10-18T16:20:00.000-07:00I think part of the problem is that people have a ...I think part of the problem is that people have a caricature of anti-semites as being very obvious and Hitler like about hating Jews. It doesn't occur to them that even racists can make arguments to justify their positions.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post-8527894754477093202007-10-16T15:56:00.000-07:002007-10-16T15:56:00.000-07:00Thanks for this. This is really interesting and I...Thanks for this. This is really interesting and I think you should write that Critical Jewish Manifesto. I'm not convinced yet that anti-Semitism is a structural force of hierarchy and oppression like white supremacy (your analogy), but reading this post and your comments at Amp's blog have at least opened my mind to the possibility. A collection of facts and figures might be good. The point about Jews having the right to define their oppression is a strong one - so go ahead and define it and show us its scope, beyond lobster dinners and meals on the plane (not that those are totally insignificant - it's just that there are in fact degrees of oppression and feelings of alienation around diet options don't rank all that highly next to, say, the mass incarceration of African-American or embargo against Gaza.)<BR/><BR/>Also, I'm not sure that citing the genocidal words of Iranian politicians, as defenders of Israel's occupation are wont to do, helps your case all that much. Anti-Semitism does exist in Iran and these politicians are likely playing to a hard-line part of the electorate. <B><A HREF="http://www.guardian.co.uk/iran/story/0,,2125486,00.html" REL="nofollow">This story</A></B> about Iranian Jews turning down a cash offer to emigrate to Israel came to mind when you raised the point. The reality is that there appear to be Jews living in Iran who are happy to be there. The rhetoric of those politicians doesn't represent the Iranian citizenry, just like Osama bin Laden doesn't speak for most Muslims, Bush doesn't speak for most Americans, etc.. I seem to remember Ahmadinejad and Iranian officials being roundly condemned by the international community when they held their Holocaust conference, too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post-13449621588521086962007-10-15T22:17:00.000-07:002007-10-15T22:17:00.000-07:00I sympathize with your frustration at having Jews,...I sympathize with your frustration at having Jews, a subordinated group everywhere in the world until maybe the last 60 years or so, lumped in with white Christians. However, the lobster dinner *really* isn't a good example. Sorry, but if you point to that as a form of oppression, that's an easy place for your opponent to point out how privileged you actually are. I definitely wouldn't try to emphasize the marginalization of Hindus by complaining about how oppressed we are by filet mignon.PGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09381347581328622706noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post-44752254696718800002007-10-15T18:35:00.000-07:002007-10-15T18:35:00.000-07:00Thank you for this post and or your understanding....Thank you for this post and or your understanding. I have found an attitude similar to that of Amp, whom, I do believe has a lot of great intentions, in a lot of Jews living in the USA and who tried to somewhat compromise "being Jewish" with "being leftie". I consider myself a leftie as well, but I refuse to folow the general left line that says "Israel is bad, Palestianins are good" from fear of being shunned. I also find it very sad to see that so many people fail to understand the whole concept of Israel as a Jewish homeland, and what it represents.<BR/><BR/>I am not the one who will sit and say "all is good in Israel". However, as a Jew, I know what it feels liek kowing that Israel exists, that when and if things will get bad again there is a homeland to go to from where nobody can kick me and my people out. This is , in my opinion, an essential part of the process of liberation of a people without a home for millenia, having the knowledge that there is a place where we are welcome.<BR/> I would have to be honest and say that I am envious of those who have been sheltered enough to be able to say that anti semitism does not exist anymore. Sadly, I am not that privileged. I can only hope that if I was in that situation at any point I would know better than to deny that oppression exists just because I don't experience it.soopermousehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08266304739028473267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post-10038514272952842502007-10-15T17:09:00.000-07:002007-10-15T17:09:00.000-07:00David--I just want to say that while you and I do ...David--<BR/><BR/>I just want to say that while you and I do not agree about Israel's being a kind of categorical imperative of Jewish liberation, I respect the intelligence and integrity you bring to your arguments.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com