tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post9140103456662056399..comments2024-03-18T22:21:33.261-07:00Comments on The Debate Link: Dispatches from the EldersDavid Schraubhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04946653376744012423noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post-69163960613460049932021-11-21T11:48:30.479-08:002021-11-21T11:48:30.479-08:00Thanks to a most unlikely source, there's now ...Thanks to a most unlikely source, there's now a resource to show that the Church of Scotland did in fact make a somewhat effective, somewhat half-assed attempt to take their piece-of-shit original report and make it into something that was (again) better if not that great.<br />That source if Stephen Sizer, the Zionism-is-ultimate evil former minister who got rightly canned by the Church of England after the poor dear just could not stop posting anti-Semitic garbage (the precipitant point where the Church had enough came when then-Rev. Sizer endorsed an Israel-did-9/11 post, then demanded proof that the theory was wrong; the Church forced Sizer to quit social media for good, and when he couldn't manage even that step he was handed his resignation letter and given a final Easter Sunday with his congregation before being punted out the door). Sizer just loved the original CoS report, not shockingly, and he then published a comparison of the pitch-perfect original and its heavily edited final version (three guesses as to what group of people "forced" these changes, and the first 2 don't count). <br />What's ironic is that Sizer's bulldog-like efforts both show how awful the original report was, and how the Kirk both made some substantial charges and kept some noxious elements of (nixing Mark Braverman as a legit source is the former, but bringing in Marc Ellis to take his place isn't an upgrade, even if Ellis got a hell of a lot less space to spew his toxicity in the final draft than Braverman did in the initial copy).<br />Listening or reading to anything Stephen Sizer does is like drinking sewer water, but in this case it was worth it. Here's the link if anyone is curious: http://www.stephensizer.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Inheritance-of-Abraham-with-track-changes2.pdfBenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01583024997893127761noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post-21345406198206977652013-05-03T14:04:54.527-07:002013-05-03T14:04:54.527-07:00Well, the Church's paper does contain prescrip...Well, the Church's paper does contain prescriptive messages for what Jews allegedly need to do ("repent", stop viewing ourselves as "special", understand that Zionism is an inherently evil ideology beyond any individual objectionable Isreali acts). But I agree that Jews are certainly only the objects of a conversation that isn't designed to include us. At best, we're allowed to be passive observers that they hope will stare awe-struck at the droplets of human civilization they offer to dribble onto our barbaric little tongues.David Schraubhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04946653376744012423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7321349.post-51478856917389058392013-05-03T13:58:35.018-07:002013-05-03T13:58:35.018-07:00One does continue to marvel at what makes Christia...<i>One does continue to marvel at what makes Christian organizations think we will read such a message and think "by golly, they must be right, because if there's one group I trust to issue accurate assessments about moral questions in general and Jewish experience in particular, its institutional Christianity!"</i><br /><br />Cute, but I doubt that the Church of Scotland's report is directed toward a Jewish audience at all. To be blunt, I don't think they thought about you (Jews) reading such a message. Where the report considers religious texts that Jews and Christians have in common, it uses only Christian interpretations. It refers repeatedly to "Christian Zionism" (which I think you've occasionally found somewhat creepy as well).<br /><br />I think it's even more depressing than what you posit, i.e. that the Church of Scotland arrogantly believes Jews will take institutional Christianity as an authority on Jewish experience. Instead, this is just more Christians talking to each other <i>about</i> the Jews, with Jews not even considered as part of the audience much less part of a dialogue.PGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09381347581328622706noreply@blogger.com